Massa Ferrarille

[Musta Pekka]

Minä ainakin odotan Massalta hyviä esityksiä, vaikken tietenkään usko siihen, että hän Schumille antaisi päihin. Massa on nykyään varma kuski, ja jos Ferrari saa autonsa samanlaiseen kuosiin kuin viime kausina, niin ei sitä edes tarvitse olla yhtä nopea kuski kuin joku Kimi.

Ei Irvineäkään minään huippukuskina pidetty, mutta niin vain mies taisteli maailmanmestaruudesta viimeiseen kisaan asti 1999.

Heheh niin taisteli juu vaan ei omilla taidoillaan, vaan Salon pienillä avustuksilla.

 

[Mosse]

Jos yhdeksän MM-pistettä on mielestäsi erittäin vakuuttavaa, niin sitten Räikkönen varmaan oli erittäin vakuuttava.

Mutta Häkkinenhän voitti 2 maailmanmestaruutta McLarenista huolimatta :thumbup:

 

[Mosse]

Heheh niin taisteli juu vaan ei omilla taidoillaan, vaan Salon pienillä avustuksilla.

Äläs nyt. Antoihan Coultti Häkälle 'työntöapua' A1-Ringillä

 

[WebSlave]

Heheh niin taisteli juu vaan ei omilla taidoillaan, vaan Salon pienillä avustuksilla.

Monikko on turha, sillä Salo ei pystynyt auttamaan missään muualla kuin Hockessa. Eli 4 pisteen arvoisesti. Mestaruustaisto olisi mennyt Suzukaan siitä huolimatta.

(Toki Schumikin auttoi saman verran Malesiassa.)

 

[Jykä81]

kimin yhdeksän pistettä kuitenkin tulivat vanhalla pistejärjestelmällä joten niiden arvo nousee hieman korkeammalle kuin massan tulokset.ajoihin kimi jopa kaksi nelostilaa ja yksi kolmostilakin oli enemmän kuin lähellä.

 

[Karpow]

Täällä vaan tunnutaan tuomitsevan Massa jo ennen kuin kaveri on saanut yhtään todellista näytönpaikkaa huippuautolla. Massaa pidettiin muutama vuosi takaperin kuitenkin aivan yhtä kovana lupauksena kuin Räikköstäkin. Joten annetaan ajan kulua ja odotellaan...

Massan vertaaminen Kimiin on helppoa, koska Massa ajoi saman tallin autolla ensimmäisen kautensa. Varsin amatööriltä Massa vaikutti Kimiin verrattuna: virheitä, virheitä ja virheitä. Typeriä mokia ja kolareita. Satomaista suhaamista vailla järjen hiventä välillä.

Ferrarin testipesti teki nähtävästi hyvää. Virheet ovat jääneet aika hyvin pois, mutta ei Massa silti edelleenkään säväytä. Puolikuntoisen Villeneuven, joka todennäköisesti ajaa viimeistä kauttaan, peittoaminen ei ole mikään suuri saavutus.

Peter Sauberikin kommentoi kauden 2002 aikana, ettei hän odottanutkaan Massasta mitään uutta Kimiä. Se kertoo aika paljon mielestäni.

 

[Karpow]

Monikko on turha, sillä Salo ei pystynyt auttamaan missään muualla kuin Hockessa. Eli 4 pisteen arvoisesti. Mestaruustaisto olisi mennyt Suzukaan siitä huolimatta.

(Toki Schumikin auttoi saman verran Malesiassa.)

No Spassa auttoi kyllä vähintään yhtä näyttävästi. Ei pisteissä, mutta muuten pidättelemällä Ralfia takanaan, jotta Eddie pääsi karkuun.

 

[WebSlave]

kimin yhdeksän pistettä kuitenkin tulivat vanhalla pistejärjestelmällä joten niiden arvo nousee hieman korkeammalle kuin massan tulokset.

Massan ensimmäinen kausi (2002) oli vanhalla pisteytyksellä. 4 pistettä, kerran viides ja kahdesti kuudes. Sillä kaudella ei Heidfeldkaan ajanut kuin 7 pistettä, joten Sauberin potentiaalikin oli ilmeisesti yleisesti huonompi kuin Kimin vuonna (jolloin Sauber oli tallipisteissä neljäs).

Ferrarin testivuoden jälkeen, kaudella 2004 Felipe ajoi kerran neljänneksi kisassa ja kahdesti aika-ajossa (Sauber tunnetusti harrasti poikkeavia polttoainetaktiikoita). Fisico pesi Massan pistein 22-12.

 

[Karpow]

Ei Irvineäkään minään huippukuskina pidetty, mutta niin vain mies taisteli maailmanmestaruudesta viimeiseen kisaan asti 1999.

Pitkälle luotettavan Ferrarinsa ansiosta. "Taistelu" oli yleensä sellaista, että Eddie oli kierroksen Häkää jäljessä ja vain odotti, että McLarenille sattuisi jotain ja tallitoveri avittaisi, jos olisi mahdollista.

Todellinen "huippukuski"... :yuck:

 

[WebSlave]

Pitkälle luotettavan Ferrarinsa ansiosta.

My point exactly. Massakin saattaa (Schumin lopettamisen jälkeen) olla vahva ehdokas maailmanmestariksi, jos Ferrari saa pakettinsa kuntoon. Riippuu tietenkin siitä kuka tulee tallikaveriksi.

 

[patriot]

Täällä vaan tunnutaan tuomitsevan Massa jo ennen kuin kaveri on saanut yhtään todellista näytönpaikkaa huippuautolla. Massaa pidettiin muutama vuosi takaperin kuitenkin aivan yhtä kovana lupauksena kuin Räikköstäkin. Joten annetaan ajan kulua ja odotellaan...

Massan suoritukset Sauberilla ovat olleet epävarmoja.... Ei tasaisuutta. Mitä tulee pisteisiin niin niitä on turha tuijotella, kun on Sauber kyseessä.

 

[pmv]

Veikkaisin että Fisichellakin oli välillä Ferrarin kiikarissa. Ongelmana on se, että miehellä on kaiketi sopimus Rellun kanssa kaudesta 2006. Ehkä Rellu ei halua pitää kiinni siitä, mutta Fisi haluaa. Ja jos Ferrari olisi kysellyt Fisichellaa Briatorelta, niin olisi sille keksitty sopiva hintalappu. Veikkaan kumminkin että tämän kauden näytöt ovat johtaneet siihen että Ferrari ei sitten lopunperin ollut Giancarlosta kiinnostunut. Tämä siihen spekulaatioon, että Sauberilla ajaessa Fisichella keräsi Massaa enempi pisteitä.

Mielenkiintoista kuulla itse di Montezemolon suusta, että Rubens päästettiin sopimuksesta irti koska uuden tallin kanssa tehty sopimus oli huomattavasti heidän sopimustaan pitempi. Eli Ferrari luopui Rubensista ilman sen kummempaa taistelua.

 

[Bobakki]

N.Todilla ja Sauber yhteydellähän tämä siirto lähti käyntiin, joten ei uutinen nyt mitenkään yllätyksenä tullut.

Jos nyt ruvetaan pilkkua viilaamaan, niin ei tuo sopimus minkään Sauber-yhteyksien kautta tullut kun Massa on ollut Ferrarin kanssa sopimuksessa jo ties kuinka pitkään. Oikeastaan pikemminkin niin, että viime- ja tämänkautinen Sauber-paikka tulivat Ferrari-kytköksillä.

 

[WebSlave]

Massan suoritukset Sauberilla ovat olleet epävarmoja.... Ei tasaisuutta.

Minusta Massan tulokset ovat nimenomaan olleet tasaisia. 2005:
10-10-7-10-11-9-14-4-K-K-10-8-14
Minusta nuo menevät kyllä aika pieneen haarukkaan (paitsi Kanadan 4. tila).

2004 variaatiota ei ollut juuri enempää:
K-8-12-10-9-5-9-K-K-13-9-13-K-4-12-8-9-8

25:stä maaliin ajetusta kisasta 21:ssä sijoitus osuu välille 8-14, 14 kertaa sijoille 8-10.

Kaudella 2002 Felipe oli vielä oppipoika, mutta maaliin päästessään aina sijoilla 5-9.

 

[Karpow]

Tätä on tiedossa Massallekkin.

 

[tehy03]

Luultavasti Massa joutuu Shumia auttamaan, mutta en kyllä usko, että Massa voisi Shumia päihittää muutenkaan. Luultavasti Massa katsoo pidemmälle tulevaisuuteen ja odottaa Shumin lopettavan muutaman vuoden sisällä...

 

[Terho]

Varmaankin tässä pätee, että ei ainakaan tuomita ketään etukäteen. Eli kyllä Massa voi olla mies paikallaan, mutta on hänestä saanut kyllä aika persoonattoman kuvan. Samoin tähän astiset tallitoverit ovat olleet aika huonoja vertauskohteita. Mutta jos BMW oli kiinnostunut pitämään hänet edelleen tallissa samoin Ferrari kiinnostunut palkkaamaan, niin kyllä se jotain kertoo.
Mielenkiintoinen tuo asetelma onko hän 1B- vai kakkoskuski. No jos Schumi jatkaa enään vuoden on Massalla hyvä F1-tulevaisuus tiedossa, jos onnistuu edes normaalisti ensi vuonna eli se voisi käsittää, että hän saa olla aluksi hitaampikin suhteessa Schumiin kuin Barrichello oli. Jos hänelle tulee heti ensi vuosi kokonaisuudessaan suunnilleen yhtä hyvä kuin Barrichello versus Schumi..
Hieman monimutkasta, katsotaan!

 

[Jere1983]

Massan kannalta jos asiaa katsoo niin pullathan on erittäin hyvin uunissa, yksi sarjan vahvimmista tiimeistä jonka autoilla voitetaan ensi kaudella taas kisoja. Siinä vaiheessa kun Shumi lähtee ja tilalle tulee joku nuori nouseva kyky on Massa ehtinyt luoda sellaisen luottamuksen autoon ja tiimiin ettei uudelle tallikaverille ole tarjolla kuin kakkoskuskin rooli. Kukapa ei haluaisi olla Ferrarin ykköskuski?

 

[Ferrari 4ever]

Nicolas Todtin kaverin kaverilta kerrottua (Tifosi Club). Ihan kiinnostavaa tekstiä, joka kirjoitettiin ennen Massan virallista julkaisua.

BEHIND THE SCENES


Last weekend I met in Paris for dinner one of my old friends that I havent seen in years. (I am french, and he is too). During the discussion, we came to talk F1. I learnt that he became a die hard F1-fan in the last 3 years. But most importantly, and you wont believe this : this person is one of Nicolas Todt best friends. (Nicolas Todt is the son of Jean and a manager of Felipe Massa)

Needless to say we stayed awake until 3 am, me mainly asking questions from him. And he telling me all he had talked about on various occasions with his friend Nicolas Todt.

And I learnt a lot of interesting things - I was so excited and I still am, that I would better only write here the facts without going too much in the details because if not this will be a 10 pages post - I will go in depth later on - I have still to cool down a little bit, because talking to him was like reading a Ferrari-insider magazine of 100 pages at once.

(the source of all this info is Nicolas Todt).

The 2005 seat change in the number 2 driver position at Ferrari :

- Todt already considered replacing Rubens (despite good results) at the end of the 2004 season, because he thought it was time to "refresh". For reasons I will develope later, it wasnt done. Rubens, during the winter testings (before the begin of season) reportedly "didnt behave and contribute as Ferrari would have expected", and as he had contributed in the previous years. According to Nicolas, Todt from that day on said to his son : "RB seems tired, and I can understand this. We need some refreshment. But as he contributed to our success so much in the last 5 years, I will leave to him the decision to honour or not to honour his contract until the end. But a renewal is out of the question." From this day on, Ferrari accelerated some contacts, with some drivers which are already established F1 drivers and some which are not (Luizzi for exemple).

The 1st half of the season 2005 convinced Todt more and more that RB should and must leave. On that MS move on RB a few months ago, that RB looked so upset about, Todt got quite angry at Rubens and privatelly summoned him in his office. Nicolas Todt said that the criticism of RB towards MS (who Todt both considers as the best driver in the world and a very close friend) did upset Todt a lot and that he got very angry at RB from this day on. One week later, Todt told RB he was "free to leave if unhappy at Ferrari".
From that date on, only details (financial and legal) were fixed but decision to dump RB was already taken and approved by LucaDI since several months.

Luca DI only advised Todt not to make it known yet internly to the mechanics and engineers of RB.

Where will RB go ?

To B.A.R.

But he had advanced contact with Toyota, as Trulli is also in contact with BAR. that would have been: RB --> Toyota alongside another Schumacher / Trulli to BAR with Button.


Who are those mysterious drivers in that so called "Ferrari driver wish-list" that Todt sometimes hints at during interviews ?

- The so called top-of-the list driver that Todt always hints about (mainly since beginning of 2005), without telling the name, is Räikkönen.
Räikkönen is on top of that secret Ferrari wish-list since YEARS and it hasnt changed.

- Alonso and Button are also on that list but Todt considers them both lower.

- Interestingly, Ferrari is keeping a very interested eye on a couple of young very talented drivers who are not in F1 yet, but that Ferrari plans to send to Minardi or Red Bull in the next 2 years. Those drivers are not famous or necessarelly those that win the championships. So dont search the ones which are full of titles. Ferrari apparently considers some drivers who arrive 2nd or third as more talented.

- Montoya is not even in that list.

- Fisichella will never ever drive for Ferrari. Until JT and/or Luca Di are in charge at least, as they are both strongly against an italian driver at Ferrari, for political reasons mainly.


Why Massa / Why now ?

Todt always considered Massa very fast and talented. Some years ago, during a 2 week intensive session at Maranello, Ferrari assessed the technical aptitudes of Massa, along with other drivers, for a test driver position. Schumacher was there and had his word to say about the test driver.
He chose Massa from the rest. Todt did the same.

During the first months of his position as a Ferrari test driver, Massa was closely under the watch of Michael Schumacher. Nicolas Todt says that the persons who, since Todt arrived at Ferrari decide who gets the test driver position is not Todt himself or any guy of the management. Schumacher himself decides and has the final word. Badoer is the only person consulted in this matter. Todt has blind faith in the judgement of Schumacher and Badoer, preciselly for the evaluation of test-driver capabilities, and he leaves the decision to them. He then consults them and always apply their recommendations and choices. Burti was the same thing. Schumacher chose him, and Schumacher noticed he was a good development driver mostly because Alain Prost during a GP has hinted to Schumacher that Burti was a very capable developer. Schumacher and Prost are in good terms and takl frequently together, and Schumacher hold Prost (as everybody in F1) as the "reference" in terms of car develpment and technical abilities fo a driver.
Schumacher then proposed to Todt to test Burti. Only then could he assess if the guy was a capable developer. Once again Prost was not wrong.
And he was chosen.

Anyway back to Massa. During the first months of his testing appointment, Massa was under close scrutiny by Schumacher. THis was done on purpose as Todt was eager to find new talented blood but also technically able young driver. You can check the archives and see that Schumacher was very frequently at Maranello (testing or otherwise) when Massa was scheduled to test. Not only to keep a close eye on him but also to show him tricks and the methodology on car developement.

Very soon after his testing position began, Todt (advised by Schumacher) decided that Massa would be a long term Ferrari investment. his son Nicolas became very involved (management, etc...), Schumacher and Badoer were both summoned to show the kind all they knew about car development and tricks and tips. A meeting once took place with Todt, his son, and Badoer, where JT sent that "there should from now on be no technical secrets between you and Massa. Pass on all your knowledge - I told michael the same."

But Nicolas Todt says that although Massa is almost assured to be in the Ferrari-galaxy for the rest of his F1 career, his fathers preference for the DRIVER NUMBER ONE position still is, and by far, Räikkönen.

Massa will at most be the official and stable number 2 driver, and if he is not good enough, will stay test driver. But Todt eyes more Räikkönen for the day Schumacher retires.



Why is Montoya not in the Ferrari list of favourites

3 reasons:

1: Schumacher thinks he is a poorly able driver when it comes to technical knowledge and car development. And according to him this will never change.
Schumacher reportedly said once to Todt that "Montoya will never be a good car developer because his brain works not in the way rigourous car development demands, and he is too old to change this now". Schumacher went on saying that his brother Ralf also thought the same (while continually working with Montoya at Williams). From then on Todt convinced Luca DI (who was initially a Montoya fan) that Montoya was not a good choice for Ferrari, although a very talented driver.

2: He is not considered a stable character, and TOdt mainly wants stability - Nicholas Todt said that his father is impressed by many drivers, but that for a Ferrari-position, he doesnt even look at drivers which cannot stay and do the job for less than 3 years. Montoya is too influencable according to Todt (and so he thinks of his manager) and can be easily be lured away by any team - Whereas he is seeking only FOCUSED drivers for Ferrari.

Todt stronlgy believes in Cultural influence in this matter of focuseness (according to his son) - he has a big preference for Germans, and Northern people. He thinks (and his not necessarelly wrong here) they are more focused and stable, and do less "useless noise" than the others.

Thus his preference for Räikkönen over the rest.

Barrichello and Massa are exceptions for Todt.
WHile he always thought of Barrichello as a very able and focused developer, stable, etc... He didnt think of the same of Massa at the beginning.
Schumacher made him think otherwise and he noticed later on that this fierce kid on the track is also a very focused person, and humble on top of that.

Jatkuu...

 

[Ferrari 4ever]

Schumacher-incompatible

I didnt know this, and forget what you read in the press:
Montoyas management, pushed since YEARS for a Ferrari position.
TOdt always refused. in 2002 Luca Di was suggesting dropping RB for JPM.
Todt and MS convinced him that it was not the right choice.

Todt, according to his son, always keeps saying internally at Ferrari, that:
"There are two ways of seeing who is a fool in the F1 world (driver or team personnel). First when he talks too much, second when he doesnt agree that Schumacher is the undisputed best driver in the world. Any one who contests this is like a blind man who doesnt notice the sun in the sky. "

Todt keeps on saying (i like this one ! ):
"Any driver who plays ego against Schumacher (outside PR-requirements) is a driver who in fact didnt reach yet his full driving maturity. If he had done so, he would drive to his limits. And then, and only then, would he be able to notice the only man who is driving beyond these limits.
It is like anything: you can comment on the guy on the next level only if you reached at least the level right below him. If not you simply are too far behind to notice / comment."

However Todt said that he didnt have anything against Montoya, but thought that he was not just good enough / or yet at his personal peak as a driver. But even on his top, he doesnt want Montoya at Ferrari, because of his ego, behaviour, etc...

Nicolas Todt said that his father was deeply shocked by Montoyas insults towards his team on a couple of races. He told his son that any driver bringing those behaviour within Ferrari would be immediatelly thrown out and his contract cancelled even if it costs Ferrari money. He went on saying that this behaviours is exactly the main thing that he had to fix when he came to Ferrari the first year. Too much poeple with ego - too much disrespect --> no team work.

So Montoya will never ever be at Ferrari.

Plus, Todt knows that Montoya and MS wont get along well, and he doesnt want that- neither for the team or for MS.

Why didnt Todt hire Räikkönen yet?

He wanted to do so before Räikkönen switched to Mclaren, but Ron Dennis came with soo much money and rigid contract clauses that Todt said that he found that ridiculous and he even doesnt regret it today to have lost to Ron Dennis.

Todt and Räikkönen´s management are in close talks, and both the management of Räikkönen and Räikkönen himself are interested in driving for Ferrari. Both of them think that Ferrari is a more stable environment for a driver. As is it the best managed and organized team. (According to what they themselves say). More than McLaren or any other team. And every driver wants to be in the best environment. Regardless on how good a car is during a championships year. THis is only short term considerations. For a 1 off championship title. But on the long term, for any driver who wants / can win more than a 1 off WDC (like JV, or Hill or other so called championship materials which i perosnnaly dont agree with), this means like Senna, like Prost, like MS, winning them in a row and really entering the hall of F1 all time champions, the long term factors should be considered: Company culture, stability and management policies.

Ihan mielenkiintoista tekstiä, jonka voin kääntää, jos on tarvetta.