Kapteeni Koo
Well-known member
- Liittynyt
- 15.6.2007
- Viestit
- 125
Siksihän se Mäkkäri ei enään kuljekkaan, kuten pre-Magny aikana, kun Ronin pojat on paniikissa pultanneet vakoillut komponentit irti kaarasta ja palanneet alkukauden osiin.
Mclaren jäi kiinni teollisuusvakoilusta
- Viestiketjun aloittaja Ferrari 4ever
- Aloituspäivämäärä
- Status
azai
Pornokeisari
Minusta kun McLaren taisi tehdä myös protestin BMW:n pohjaratkaisusta. Taisi Coughlanilla olla myös kontaktia BMW:n suuntaan. Or not. Osoittakoon tämä BMW:n pohjalevy juttu myös sen ettei Ferrarin pohjalevy käräytykseen tarvittu pelkästään Stepneytä. Kyllä se tuli ihan muulla tavalla se protesti :thumbdownRapu-70 sanoi:
Ai jaa. Saman tien voidaan varmaan hastaa Vodafone, kun toimitti McLarenille puhelimet. Ampuuko yli jo Yuri?Yuri Borzenokóv sanoi:
Todisteet löytyivätkin Mike Coughlanin luota, ei McLarenilta. Uskomatonta tässä on se ettei Coughlan edes vaivautunut hävittämään todisteita Stepneyn jäädessä kiinni sabotaasista.Yuri Borzenokóv sanoi:
Nigel Stepneyn kämpältä oli vielä löytynyt kullanarvoiset F2007:n ratit. Miten ihmeessä Ferrari on voinut olla tietämättä että nämä kallisarvoiset ratit ovat hukassa? Tähän liittyy varmasti muuta kuin Stepney.
Vitutuksessa keksii kaikenlaista salaliittoteoriaa. Pidetään kuitenkin tällä hetkellä tilastoa:Yuri Borzenokóv sanoi:
Tallit jotka ovat jäänneet kiinni huijauksesta ja saaneet kilpailukieltoa vuodesta 2000 lähtien:
(Amatööri) Honda 1
Muut ammattilaistallit 0
Priceless...
Satuihin saa uskoa. Jos otetaan puheen Mike Coughlan, niin kyseisellä kaverillahan ei ole tittelistä huolimatta mitään osaamista aerodynamiikan puolella tai elektroniikan.Kapteeni Koo sanoi:
Ja kuinkas yhdennäköinen se MP4-22 on verrattuna F2007:n kanssa? Ei sitten tippaakaan samannäköinen, hyvinkin erityyppiset ratkaisut.
Kuten hyvinkin japanilaiseen tyyliin eräs Toyotan luomus oli täydellinen kopio Ferrarin FA2003-GA mallista, jota (ex-)Ferrarilaiset jälleen kerran huorasivat Toyotalle. Siinä oli mielestäni paljon räikeämpi teollisuusvakoilu kyseessä.
Joni
Well-known member
- Liittynyt
- 19.1.2004
- Viestit
- 16942
Analysis: the remarkable Stepneygate saga
By Adam Cooper Tuesday, July 3rd 2007, 23:03 GMT
'Stepneygate' has sent shock waves through Formula One in recent days, and Tuesday's news that a senior McLaren employee is involved in obtaining stolen documents belonging to Ferrari has added yet another dimension to the story.
Ferrari and McLaren have had a highly charged rivalry for three decades now, but this latest episode is perhaps the strangest yet.
The 'Dream Team' Disbanded
Nigel Stepney began his motorsport career in the 1970s, when he worked for the Broadspeed touring car team, before moving through stints at Shadow and Lotus - where he worked with Ayrton Senna.
From 1988 to 1992 he was at Benetton as chief mechanic. He earned a reputation as a good organiser who paid attention to detail and kept the troops in line. That was just what Ferrari needed when he was head-hunted by former Benetton colleague John Barnard in 1993, shortly before Jean Todt joined the Italian team.
He knew Michael Schumacher, Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne in his time at Benetton, so when they came to Maranello in 1996 and 1997, it was a reuniting of the old gang.
Through the Schumacher glory years, Stepney received a lot of the credit for getting the team on track, especially in terms of reliability and improved preparation. He also became better known after Schumacher ran him over during a pitstop in the 2000 Spanish Grand Prix; after that incident, he gave the lollipop job to someone else...
His job title changed from that of chief mechanic to that of race technical manager. He was clearly a key part of the 'Dream Team', and indeed on occasion he went on to the podium to represent Ferrari and pick up the constructors' trophy.
There was no reason to suspect he was anything but very happy at Ferrari until some time last year, when in conversation he casually mentioned that he was hoping to switch to a factory-based job in 2008.
Schumacher was about to announce his retirement, and Brawn was going on a sabbatical. Like them, Stepney used up a lot of energy through those championship-chasing years, and presumably he quite liked the idea of slowing down, thinking about new challenges.
But he also made it clear that with Schumacher not driving, and even more importantly with Brawn gone, the team would no longer be the same. In essence, he wasn't too happy about being involved in something that potentially was going to go downhill with a new regime in charge.
In fact, Stepney had quite a colourful way of expressing his feeling at the time, and his candour was quite surprising.
Then, during the winter, Stepney made his feeling publicly known in an interview with Autosport magazine, much to Ferrari's displeasure.
House Search at Casa Stepney
By the time Formula One arrived at Melbourne for the opening race of the season, there was no sign of Stepney, whose new factory role was head of team performance development.
This followed by rumours that Stepney was contemplating a move to Honda - entirely logical, considering he is a Briton who presumably always fancied moving back home (throughout his Ferrari years, Brawn always maintained a double life, with a house in the UK). With Brawn's name also linked to Honda, it seemed plausible that both men could end up there.
Then, a couple of weeks ago, came the bombshell news that Stepney was under criminal investigation in Italy, following action taken by Ferrari, and that he had 'disappeared' abroad.
All sorts of mixed messages came out in the days that followed. Key among them was talk of a white powder being found in or around the Ferrari F2007 fuel tank before the Monaco Grand Prix, and the suggestion therefore Stepney tried to sabotage the cars.
The police duly raided the Briton's house in Italy, and it was reported that they had taken away a canister, which we could only presume was related to the aforementioned white powder.
Things took a different turn on June 24, when the Sunday Times reported Stepney's view. Journalist Jane Nottage, who knows Stepney well and has written an officially sanctioned book about the inner workings of Ferrari, called him in the Philippines, where he was holidaying with his girlfriend and their child.
"I have confidence that I'll be cleared by the legal process that is now taking place," he told her. "It is just part of a dirty tricks campaign and everything is in the hands of my lawyer, so we'll wait and see what happens.
"I am on a planned holiday with Ash and our baby. Why would anyone say I am not contactable? I booked the flights through the Ferrari travel office. They know where I am."
In a further twist, a Ferrari spokesman told autosport.com at Magny-Cours last weekend that this last statement was not true, and indeed, Stepney was not even on an official leave.
Meanwhile, the rumours continued to fly around, and bits of information come out in dribs and drabs. I've been told that the police officers who visited Casa Nigel didn't just recover that canister, but other items of interest, reportedly including a couple of steering wheels that should not have been there.
Sources have also suggested that Stepney was allegedly seen behaving suspiciously around the cars in the factory at a time when he thought he was alone, and/or that there is incriminating CCTV footage.
In addition to the white powder business, there were also rumours of some form of industrial espionage.
It seemed obvious to assume that any such behaviour might involve a potential future employer such as Honda, but there was a whisper last weekend that McLaren were the recipient.
Sabotaging the cars, helping McLaren by passing on secrets... The story got weirder and weirder. What was Stepney supposedly up to?
The only conclusion a casual observer could make was that some internal strife at Maranello, possibly involving Stepney not being allowed contractually to make his move to Honda, had caused him to extract some sort or revenge.
House Search at Fort Coughlan
However, the story took another serious turn on Tuesday morning when Ferrari revealed that Stepney had been sacked.
And, that afternoon brought the stunning news that McLaren were indeed in the loop a statement from the Woking outfit revealing "senior member of [McLaren's] technical organisation was subject of a Ferrari investigation regarding the receipt of technical information."
McLaren's statement further revealed that this senior staff member " had personally received a package of technical information from a Ferrari employee at the end of April."
McLaren concluded by saying the individual has been suspended by the company, pending a full investigation.
Inevitably there was considerable interest in just who might be involved at Woking, and logic suggested it was someone at McLaren who has worked with Stepney in the past. There was certainly more than one high profile name that fitted that bill.
After that came a statement from Ferrari, which confirmed they have instigated legal proceedings against Stepney and a McLaren employee, in both Italy and England.
It didn't take long for it to emerge that the McLaren man under investigation was chief designer Mike Coughlan.
He worked with Stepney at Benetton and, from 1993 to 1998, at Ferrari - although Coughlan was mostly at John Barnard's Surrey base rather than in Maranello.
On Tuesday, Coughlan's house was visited by the UK police, and apparently Ferrari documents were found there.
Clearly the saga has caused some disruption at Ferrari, but the fact that this affair has now spread to McLaren as well must be big relief to the Maranello team, as some of the negative attention has been diverted.
If, as must now be considered possible, Coughlan does not return to work once the investigation is complete, he will leave a hole in McLaren's staff that has to be filled.
McLaren may have strength in depth, but losing the chief designer in the middle of a title campaign - and just as serious work gets going on the 2008 car - is not exactly ideal.
Inevitably, too, some would also be very happy for the fans to draw the conclusion that McLaren's turnaround in form after Spain was in some way related to the information that was passed on, although clearly there is no evidence that this is the case.
Indeed, it remains unknown if the alleged information was actually used by Coughlan in an attempt to benefit McLaren, or if indeed it was of any value to a team running a completely different car.
The other possibility is that the information pertained to something that Ferrari were doing that was of potential interest to McLaren - advanced wing design and flexing bodywork, for example.
The Gathering Storm
Ferrari interestingly made a point of ending their statement on Tuesday by saying the team "reserve the right to consider all implications, be they criminal, civil or of any other nature, according to the applicable laws." (emphasis added)
The last time Ferrari made a similar threat was in 2003, after the FIA found the tread width of Michelin tyres to be outside the legal width - following a protest by Ferrari. Back then, Ferrari also "reserved the right" to challenge race results after the season was over, should they deem it necessary.
Ferrari never pursued legal action in 2003 - the team, after all, won both titles that season - but Maranello's suggestion that some teams may not have won fairly was made very clear.
By Adam Cooper Tuesday, July 3rd 2007, 23:03 GMT
'Stepneygate' has sent shock waves through Formula One in recent days, and Tuesday's news that a senior McLaren employee is involved in obtaining stolen documents belonging to Ferrari has added yet another dimension to the story.
Ferrari and McLaren have had a highly charged rivalry for three decades now, but this latest episode is perhaps the strangest yet.
The 'Dream Team' Disbanded
Nigel Stepney began his motorsport career in the 1970s, when he worked for the Broadspeed touring car team, before moving through stints at Shadow and Lotus - where he worked with Ayrton Senna.
From 1988 to 1992 he was at Benetton as chief mechanic. He earned a reputation as a good organiser who paid attention to detail and kept the troops in line. That was just what Ferrari needed when he was head-hunted by former Benetton colleague John Barnard in 1993, shortly before Jean Todt joined the Italian team.
He knew Michael Schumacher, Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne in his time at Benetton, so when they came to Maranello in 1996 and 1997, it was a reuniting of the old gang.
Through the Schumacher glory years, Stepney received a lot of the credit for getting the team on track, especially in terms of reliability and improved preparation. He also became better known after Schumacher ran him over during a pitstop in the 2000 Spanish Grand Prix; after that incident, he gave the lollipop job to someone else...
His job title changed from that of chief mechanic to that of race technical manager. He was clearly a key part of the 'Dream Team', and indeed on occasion he went on to the podium to represent Ferrari and pick up the constructors' trophy.
There was no reason to suspect he was anything but very happy at Ferrari until some time last year, when in conversation he casually mentioned that he was hoping to switch to a factory-based job in 2008.
Schumacher was about to announce his retirement, and Brawn was going on a sabbatical. Like them, Stepney used up a lot of energy through those championship-chasing years, and presumably he quite liked the idea of slowing down, thinking about new challenges.
But he also made it clear that with Schumacher not driving, and even more importantly with Brawn gone, the team would no longer be the same. In essence, he wasn't too happy about being involved in something that potentially was going to go downhill with a new regime in charge.
In fact, Stepney had quite a colourful way of expressing his feeling at the time, and his candour was quite surprising.
Then, during the winter, Stepney made his feeling publicly known in an interview with Autosport magazine, much to Ferrari's displeasure.
House Search at Casa Stepney
By the time Formula One arrived at Melbourne for the opening race of the season, there was no sign of Stepney, whose new factory role was head of team performance development.
This followed by rumours that Stepney was contemplating a move to Honda - entirely logical, considering he is a Briton who presumably always fancied moving back home (throughout his Ferrari years, Brawn always maintained a double life, with a house in the UK). With Brawn's name also linked to Honda, it seemed plausible that both men could end up there.
Then, a couple of weeks ago, came the bombshell news that Stepney was under criminal investigation in Italy, following action taken by Ferrari, and that he had 'disappeared' abroad.
All sorts of mixed messages came out in the days that followed. Key among them was talk of a white powder being found in or around the Ferrari F2007 fuel tank before the Monaco Grand Prix, and the suggestion therefore Stepney tried to sabotage the cars.
The police duly raided the Briton's house in Italy, and it was reported that they had taken away a canister, which we could only presume was related to the aforementioned white powder.
Things took a different turn on June 24, when the Sunday Times reported Stepney's view. Journalist Jane Nottage, who knows Stepney well and has written an officially sanctioned book about the inner workings of Ferrari, called him in the Philippines, where he was holidaying with his girlfriend and their child.
"I have confidence that I'll be cleared by the legal process that is now taking place," he told her. "It is just part of a dirty tricks campaign and everything is in the hands of my lawyer, so we'll wait and see what happens.
"I am on a planned holiday with Ash and our baby. Why would anyone say I am not contactable? I booked the flights through the Ferrari travel office. They know where I am."
In a further twist, a Ferrari spokesman told autosport.com at Magny-Cours last weekend that this last statement was not true, and indeed, Stepney was not even on an official leave.
Meanwhile, the rumours continued to fly around, and bits of information come out in dribs and drabs. I've been told that the police officers who visited Casa Nigel didn't just recover that canister, but other items of interest, reportedly including a couple of steering wheels that should not have been there.
Sources have also suggested that Stepney was allegedly seen behaving suspiciously around the cars in the factory at a time when he thought he was alone, and/or that there is incriminating CCTV footage.
In addition to the white powder business, there were also rumours of some form of industrial espionage.
It seemed obvious to assume that any such behaviour might involve a potential future employer such as Honda, but there was a whisper last weekend that McLaren were the recipient.
Sabotaging the cars, helping McLaren by passing on secrets... The story got weirder and weirder. What was Stepney supposedly up to?
The only conclusion a casual observer could make was that some internal strife at Maranello, possibly involving Stepney not being allowed contractually to make his move to Honda, had caused him to extract some sort or revenge.
House Search at Fort Coughlan
However, the story took another serious turn on Tuesday morning when Ferrari revealed that Stepney had been sacked.
And, that afternoon brought the stunning news that McLaren were indeed in the loop a statement from the Woking outfit revealing "senior member of [McLaren's] technical organisation was subject of a Ferrari investigation regarding the receipt of technical information."
McLaren's statement further revealed that this senior staff member " had personally received a package of technical information from a Ferrari employee at the end of April."
McLaren concluded by saying the individual has been suspended by the company, pending a full investigation.
Inevitably there was considerable interest in just who might be involved at Woking, and logic suggested it was someone at McLaren who has worked with Stepney in the past. There was certainly more than one high profile name that fitted that bill.
After that came a statement from Ferrari, which confirmed they have instigated legal proceedings against Stepney and a McLaren employee, in both Italy and England.
It didn't take long for it to emerge that the McLaren man under investigation was chief designer Mike Coughlan.
He worked with Stepney at Benetton and, from 1993 to 1998, at Ferrari - although Coughlan was mostly at John Barnard's Surrey base rather than in Maranello.
On Tuesday, Coughlan's house was visited by the UK police, and apparently Ferrari documents were found there.
Clearly the saga has caused some disruption at Ferrari, but the fact that this affair has now spread to McLaren as well must be big relief to the Maranello team, as some of the negative attention has been diverted.
If, as must now be considered possible, Coughlan does not return to work once the investigation is complete, he will leave a hole in McLaren's staff that has to be filled.
McLaren may have strength in depth, but losing the chief designer in the middle of a title campaign - and just as serious work gets going on the 2008 car - is not exactly ideal.
Inevitably, too, some would also be very happy for the fans to draw the conclusion that McLaren's turnaround in form after Spain was in some way related to the information that was passed on, although clearly there is no evidence that this is the case.
Indeed, it remains unknown if the alleged information was actually used by Coughlan in an attempt to benefit McLaren, or if indeed it was of any value to a team running a completely different car.
The other possibility is that the information pertained to something that Ferrari were doing that was of potential interest to McLaren - advanced wing design and flexing bodywork, for example.
The Gathering Storm
Ferrari interestingly made a point of ending their statement on Tuesday by saying the team "reserve the right to consider all implications, be they criminal, civil or of any other nature, according to the applicable laws." (emphasis added)
The last time Ferrari made a similar threat was in 2003, after the FIA found the tread width of Michelin tyres to be outside the legal width - following a protest by Ferrari. Back then, Ferrari also "reserved the right" to challenge race results after the season was over, should they deem it necessary.
Ferrari never pursued legal action in 2003 - the team, after all, won both titles that season - but Maranello's suggestion that some teams may not have won fairly was made very clear.
Joni
Well-known member
- Liittynyt
- 19.1.2004
- Viestit
- 16942
This time around, McLaren were unequivocal in their Tuesday statement that 'Stepneygate' involves one individual inthe team, and not McLaren.
"Whilst McLaren has no involvement in the matter and condemns such actions, we will fully cooperate with any investigation," the team said, and there is no reason to question this. For all his shortcomings, Ron Dennis's integrity has never been at doubt.
Either way, though, this really is a sorry saga that will overshadow the British team's widely anticipated homecoming Grand Prix at Silverstone this weekend.
It's also unclear how all this affects Ross Brawn and any plans he has to return to Maranello.
The former technical direct is very close to Stepney, but on the other hand he is a Ferrari man to the core, and if there has been any wrongdoing, one presumes he will side with the team.
So now we wait to find out not only what Stepney has to say when he returns to Europe, but also what happens at McLaren.
It remains to be seen what the FIA, too, will do - if at all - in this affair, and what are the legal implications for Stepney, Coughlan, Ferrari and McLaren.
Recently, two former Ferrari employees were found guilty of stealing Ferrari secrets and taking them to Toyota.
And, considering that that affair took four years to reach its court resolution, it's safe to say that 'Stepneygate' has only just begun.
Additional reporting by Biranit Goren
"Whilst McLaren has no involvement in the matter and condemns such actions, we will fully cooperate with any investigation," the team said, and there is no reason to question this. For all his shortcomings, Ron Dennis's integrity has never been at doubt.
Either way, though, this really is a sorry saga that will overshadow the British team's widely anticipated homecoming Grand Prix at Silverstone this weekend.
It's also unclear how all this affects Ross Brawn and any plans he has to return to Maranello.
The former technical direct is very close to Stepney, but on the other hand he is a Ferrari man to the core, and if there has been any wrongdoing, one presumes he will side with the team.
So now we wait to find out not only what Stepney has to say when he returns to Europe, but also what happens at McLaren.
It remains to be seen what the FIA, too, will do - if at all - in this affair, and what are the legal implications for Stepney, Coughlan, Ferrari and McLaren.
Recently, two former Ferrari employees were found guilty of stealing Ferrari secrets and taking them to Toyota.
And, considering that that affair took four years to reach its court resolution, it's safe to say that 'Stepneygate' has only just begun.
Additional reporting by Biranit Goren
azai
Pornokeisari
Niin. Tässähän on esitetty vielä väitteitä että MM-taistelu ratkaistaisiin oikeussalissa Ferrarin toimesta. Tämä olisi tietenkin se kaikista huonoin vaihtoehto. Tuskin FIA:kaan tykkää asiasta, joka voisi periaatteessa Ferrarin ja McLarenin sulkea sarjasta ulos perusteena lajin maineen lokaaminen.
Herkästi FIA tällaisiin puuttuu kuten USA:n GP:ssä 2005.
Herkästi FIA tällaisiin puuttuu kuten USA:n GP:ssä 2005.
Felix
Well-known member
- Liittynyt
- 12.7.1999
- Viestit
- 1258
Se ettei Coughlanilla ole osaamista jollain alueelta ei tarkoita sitä ettei kenelläkään Mcrenilla olisi, papereita kun voi antaa eteenpäin vaikka ominaan. Toisekseen ei autojen tarvitse näyttää samanlaisilta jotta toisen tekniikkaa tai tutkimuksia ei voisi käyttää hyväkseen; moottori, elektroniikka, vaihteisto, jousitus tai yleensä kaikki informaatio aerodynamiikan puolelta on käypää kamaa.azai sanoi:
Se onko sitten tietoja käytetty mihinkään tai onko niistä ollut mitään hyötyä onkin vaikeampi juttu selvittää, sen tietää vain kourallinen henkilöitä
Viimeksi muokattu:
Ronttu
Well-known member
- Liittynyt
- 12.3.2006
- Viestit
- 650
HAHAA! Asiallista! Tässä voi tapahtua vielä vaikka mitä, arvailuja on ilmassa ja saa nähdä mihin tässä asiassa oikein vielä päädytäänkään. Jännää on kyllä. Älyttömän ylivoimanen oli Mäkki yhessä vaiheessa ja viime kisassa taas oli kuppi ihan nurinperin.Hmm..ei tässä voi muutakuin jännityksellä odottaa mitä tapahtuu
Yuri Borzenokóv
Banned
- Liittynyt
- 3.7.2006
- Viestit
- 389
Se vaatii kyllä jotenkin käsittämätöntä mentaliteettia olla ladapoika. Jos minun kannattamani joukkueen/tallin työntekijä jäisi kiinni kilpailijalta varastetun tiedon hallussapidosta, olisin kyllä aika nolona ja harmittelisin tapahtunutta. Luultavasti suhtautumiseni muuttuisi aika perusteellisesti muutenkin. Ladapojat sen sijaan raivoavat suu vaahdossa että meidän porukka ei ole tehnyt mitään väärää, siihen ei ole mitään viittausta ja sitä paitsi syytteitäkään ei ole vielä nostettu.
On se vaan aika surullista, jos joutuu jatkuvasti selittämään itselleen rakkaidensa tekosia itsepetoksella.
On se vaan aika surullista, jos joutuu jatkuvasti selittämään itselleen rakkaidensa tekosia itsepetoksella.
Gazetta della Sportin mukaan McLaren ja Ronzo käräyttivät Coughlanin Ferrarille kun Coughlan oli enemmän tai vähemmän oma-alotteisesti tunnustanut Ronzolle. Etsintälupa Coughlanin kämpään olisi saatu McLarenin Ferrarille antamien tietojen perusteella. Jos toi juttu pitää paikkansa on Ferrarin aika hankala jahdata McLarenia. Tällä hetekellä vallalla oleva käsitys on kaiketi, että Stepney haki kostoa kokemalleen vääryydelle ja toimi oma-alotteisesti.azai sanoi:
Ferrari 4ever
Well-known member
The Guardian : 'Ferrari believe that the improvement in McLaren's performance after the Spanish Grand Prix on May 13 is consistent with the apparent leaks at the end of April.'
Myrsky on tulossa.
Myrsky on tulossa.
formulastara
Well-known member
"Ferrari on syyllinen" -Azai.
Ihme jos eivät sulje siis Ferraria sarjasta.
Paina paina. :thumbup:
Ihme jos eivät sulje siis Ferraria sarjasta.
Paina paina. :thumbup:
odetus
Well-known member
- Liittynyt
- 18.10.2006
- Viestit
- 1997
Kova juttu se on sanottava, varsinkin jos siinä paketissa oli koko Ferrarin tämän kauden auton piirrustukset, Mclaren saa siitä huomattavan edun ja voi tätä kautta parannella autoaan, vaikka niitä ominaisuuksia mitä Ferrarin tämän kauden autossa on ei voikkaan suoraan siirtää heidän autoonsa. Oliko Stepney oikeasti näin v*ttuuntunut asiasta että päätti heittää kilpailevalle tallille tämän kauden autoon liittyvät asiat?
Yuri Borzenokóv
Banned
- Liittynyt
- 3.7.2006
- Viestit
- 389
"Jos toi juttu pitää paikkansa on Ferrarin aika hankala jahdata McLarenia"
Oma pulu luonnollisesti ammutaan alas siinä vaiheessa, kun siitä ei ole enää hyötyä. Tämähän nyt on aivan tyypillistä 5 vaille kiinni jääneen toimintaa. Kun aviomiehen rakastajatar uhkaa kertoa suhteestaan tämän vaimolle, kertoo aviomies luonnollisesti ENSIN vaimolleen että joku hullu akka jahtaa mua. Muutama viikko sitten Henryn siirtymisestä Barcelonaan lehtimiehet saivat vihiä kaupasta muutaman päivän etuajassa, jolloin Barcelona piti heti nopean lehdistötilaisuuden, jossa kerrottiin "olemme käyneet neuvotteluja Arsenalin kanssa, mutta mitään ei ole vielä päätetty lässynlässynlässytilää" ja pari päivää myöhemmin kauppa oli julkinen.
Mitä ihmeellistä tässä nyt muka on, oikein harvinaisen tyypillistä läpinäkyvää jälkien peittelyä ja oman kuvan kiillotusta. Just McLarenin imagoon
Oma pulu luonnollisesti ammutaan alas siinä vaiheessa, kun siitä ei ole enää hyötyä. Tämähän nyt on aivan tyypillistä 5 vaille kiinni jääneen toimintaa. Kun aviomiehen rakastajatar uhkaa kertoa suhteestaan tämän vaimolle, kertoo aviomies luonnollisesti ENSIN vaimolleen että joku hullu akka jahtaa mua. Muutama viikko sitten Henryn siirtymisestä Barcelonaan lehtimiehet saivat vihiä kaupasta muutaman päivän etuajassa, jolloin Barcelona piti heti nopean lehdistötilaisuuden, jossa kerrottiin "olemme käyneet neuvotteluja Arsenalin kanssa, mutta mitään ei ole vielä päätetty lässynlässynlässytilää" ja pari päivää myöhemmin kauppa oli julkinen.
Mitä ihmeellistä tässä nyt muka on, oikein harvinaisen tyypillistä läpinäkyvää jälkien peittelyä ja oman kuvan kiillotusta. Just McLarenin imagoon
Pizarro
Well-known member
- Liittynyt
- 20.6.2004
- Viestit
- 85
Tämän uutisen kuultuani ensimmäisenä mieleen tuli tämä McLarenin uusi etusiipi. Näin jälkeenpäin viisaana voi sanoa että se näyttää juuri semmoiselta, "kokeillaanpa näitä mittoja meidän autoon"-viritelmältä. Vaan semmosiahan kyllä voi värkätä ihan telkkarikuvienki avulla.Ferrari 4ever sanoi:
formulastara
Well-known member
Kyllä täytyy sanoa, että mikäli tietovuoto johtuu Stepneyn halusta kostaa ja olla vihainen, niin mies ansaitsee maailman lapsellisimman ihmisen tittelin kierroksen erolla seuraavaan.odetus sanoi:
Itse veikkaan, että Nigelin tili Bank of Caymansilla on lihonnut keväällä muutamalla kymmenellä miljoonalla dollarilla. Maksajana; well, jokainen tehköön omat johtopäätökset, "johtikset".
Närkästyminen tallin politiikkaan toki on voinut toimia startterina koko tapaukseen.
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